But what does John say?
There will be the death and then the resurrection. And the trauma following tehd eath will be like the birth pangs of a new birth and the resurrection will be like taht birth.
In the resurrection the disciples will be able to ask the father for anything in his name and it will be given. Indeed Christ encourages such asking so your joy may be complete.
An interesting phrase that. It was used before:
If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. I have said these things to you so that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be complete. (John 15:10-11)
It will reappear in John 17:13 and in the Johannine letters 1 and 2.
I cannot bear witness to such a faith as this. It has not been fulfilled in my life and experience. Based upon what others here have said -- it is not true of anyone else's here either -- though some may have found other consolations.
5 comments:
Well David, none of us can bear witness to anything but our own faith. If you mean to say you don't believe Jesus' promises here, I can appreciate that-- especially if you take it literally and legalistically. If you perceive it as poetry, pointing to a truth beyond possible verbal explanation, that's another matter.
Hi David. Do you mean that the "asking for whatever you want and getting it" hasn't panned out? You're right - it hasn't for me. That makes me wonder if I'm understanding it correctly.
I actually don't mean anything other than what I said. First Friends placed great investment on teh idea they could bear witness to the scriptures fulfilled in their lives.
I simply can't do that here. Its not about beliveing but about seeing here. My experience is taht prayers go unanswered. And my joy is not particularly complete either.
You said "prayers go unanswered" in your experience. But all prayers?
There was an experiement once with rats ... if they pushed a lever, a snack would be released. Some rats never got a snack when they pushed the lever, some got snacks every time, some rats only occassionally got a snack when they pushed the lever. The rats who got only occassional snacks pushed the lever many more times than either of the other groups.
Some of my prayers have been answered, or so it seems (could be coincidence). So I keep asking for stuff.
David,
I'm going to pose a few questions, but know that I don't expect you to answer it here... only to ponder it.
What is your heart's deepest longing?
What do you suppose would 'make your joy complete'?
It seems that Jesus is suggesting that when his joy is in us, our joy will be complete. If so, what is it that gave Jesus so much joy?
The way I read it, it is God's presence within him that gave him this joy. Jesus 'abided in God's love'.
I think you're right about bearing witness - one cannot do it unless one experiences the truth of a faith such as this.
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