I lost this section if it ever happened, so here is my (King Jim) version and comments:
(IMO John 14-17 is the most meaningful discourse of Jesus we have. We have studied several of his earlier discourses; they all seemed to be directed at his adversaries: the 'Jews', the Pharisees, etc. In them John appeared to be writing a defense of his faith against the hostility he had encountered from the Jewish establishment. But beginning here he speaks directly to his disciples- words of challenge and reassurance and love.)
14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
(Harvey Cox wrote a book called Many Mansions. In it he pointed out the interesting proximity between verse 2 here and verse 6 below: verse 2 for Harvey [and for me] suggests inclusiveness up to universalism. Verse 6 in contrast suggests the exclusiveness of Jesus' gospel. Perhaps a logical inconsistency, maybe resolved in the eternal dimension. My own resolution is that many Buddhists, etc. have an existential experience of Jesus' Way.)
14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
(The bold phrase suggests the concurrence of the eternal and the temporal in Jesus' life:
he died, arose, ascended: these are temporal categories; but he comes again in the eternal realm, ever present, and as vivid in our consciousness and awareness as we allow it to be.)
14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
(Here Jesus says that God lives in him and does the 'works'; can we not say the same thing?)
14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
(This is the great verse that plainly points to the divinization of man.)
14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
(Don't these last two verses simply boggle your mind? I think the coming of the kingdom of God with power waits upon our exercising the faith to believe in and act on these promises.)
13 comments:
Hi Larry. I missed this section too - was it ever posted?
Yes, that phrase, I will come agsin is provocative! I guess it, and Revelation, is the basis for all the Rapture/Left Behind stuff. Later, in the end of John, Jesus mentions it again when he says something about wanting John to wait until he comes back. Interesting.
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. ... when I was a kid, even though we didn't go to church, I still sometimes said prayers before bed and "in Jesus' name" was tacked on to the end of all of them ... I still do it.
Me, too, Crystal.
Crystal, the common interpretations of Revelation, the rapture and the left behind is only for people who cannot see the eternal; they can only see the temporal.
I haven't read Revelation - too scary! :-) But all I know of it is from novels and movies ... the good people are scooped up, so to speak, and the not so good people have to stay here to endure plagues and pestilenceses and natural disasters ... then Jesus and the anti-christ battle it out? Yikes!
Sorry Larry, don't know how I missed that! Asleep at the wheel I guess.
Crystal: I think larry overstaes his case a bit when he says the common interpretations of Revelation, the rapture and the left behind is only for people who cannot see the eternal I tend to chalk it up to poor education (both religious and secular) and Hollywood's fascination with spectacle and hype. Basically to read it well you need to know a good allegory when you see one.
Revelations is filled with some really deep spiritual wisdom. But most of it is directed at the church -- or the body of christians as a whole and not us as individuals. If nothing else read chapters 2 & 3 -- the letters to the 7 churches. Much of interest there on how to be (and how not to be) a church.
Hey David. I was thinking about something you said in an earlier post - the one about helping other and not being reciprocated by them. I remembered this passage from Luke 14:12-14 and it made me think of that ...
Then he said to the host who invited him, "When you hold a lunch or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or your wealthy neighbors, in case they may invite you back and you have repayment. Rather, when you hold a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind; blessed indeed will you be because of their inability to repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."
Yup. I know that one.
I think folks who can do that consistently are either more spiritually evolved than me or have serious control hangups and ego issues they haven't faced yet.
On a one shot deal yes. On a freak show moment give $10 or $20 to a pan ahndler just to freak him out.
But a sustained relationship requires mutuality and respect and give and take and all that demands -- in most of us anyway -- equality of power and voice. Not usually possible in a one-sided relationship.
There are acses where it becomes necessary. a mother lies dying and an adult child takes care of her. Such things are exceptional by their nature. And often serious guilt and resentment issues kick in anyway.
Larry, you ask: "Don't these last two verses simply boggle your mind?"
Yes, these verses do boggle my mind. I'm not sure I really understand these promises. Surely, as adults we know that all that we may ask for isn't going to be granted. Long ago when my desire wasn't granted I realized that I likely had just been asking for the wrong thing. For example, praying for an impending loss not to happen was fruitless - it happened anyway. But praying for strength to get through it was a prayer answered - through some amazing friends and the kindness of strangers.
I'd like to hear you expand on this: "the coming of the kingdom of God with power waits upon our exercising the faith to believe in and act on these promises."
Thank you, Meredith; just for starters: I can believe that every prayer is answered:
1) Not necessarily when we want it, not our time, but eternally, yes.
2)You're right; if God gave everything we asked, it might destroy us.
3) My own experience has been that usually when God witholds an answer, it leads to something better than what I requested.
I would like to go on, but it's bedtime. Heavy day tomorrow, but thanks for the provocation.
Thank you Larry. This morning I read that Mahatma Gandhi said that "Prayer is not asking. It is the longing of a soul." I'm inclined to agree.
So right, Meredith. Whoever gets a taste of the presence of God must forever thereafter live in a state of hunger and thirst.
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