Come dance with Me

Just a quick post on Psalm 150. Sorry I'm so late.

Something that stands out to me is the commonality of dance among spiritual traditions. There is the Stomp Dance of the Cherokee, the Whirling of the Sufi, the Jewish circle dances, the moving meditation of the Tibetan monks....and on and on and on.

Dance is common. Why? I think there is heard, again and again in different places and eras the call - "Come dance with Me."

Come dance with Me. Dance as an expression of spiritual joy. Dance as a means of drawing close to the Lover.

Personally, (though it has been awhile) I have been known to put in a CD (perhaps the David Crowder Band or Rita Springer...or something totally unexpected), close the blinds, crank up the volume, grab my prayer shawl to use as prop --- and dance my heart out. Whirling, clapping, singing, shouting, kneeling, whispering, whirling again. Somewhere in there self-awareness stops and I notice that I am not alone. I am answering the call to dance with my Love and my heart is opened and healed.

I didn't realize how much I had missed this until now. Thanks for the reminder!

Housekeeping

I'm hoping folks have been thinking a bit about where we might grow next. Thus far two options are on the plate:


Read a canonical book -- preferably from the New Testament
Take a break

I suspect there are more possibilities out there. In particular I would like to have a general consideration of what we find helpful here and what we don't so we might incorporate changes in how we do things.

Quiet Praise

We have now reached the last summit of the mountain chain of Psalms. It rises high into the clear azure, and its brow is bathed in the sunlight of the eternal world of worship, it is a rapture. The poet prophet is full of inspiration and enthusiasm. He slays not to argue, to teach, to explain; but cries with burning words, "Praise him, Praise him, Praise ye the LORD."

Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-92)

***

I read that the book of psalms parallels the spiritual journey. Two paths are outlined, the way to life and the way to death. If we choose God’s way to life, we still face blessings and sorrows, joy and grief, success and obstacles. All of these experiences of our lives can be found in the psalms. At the end of our journey, we may find ourselves inhabiting a place that not only revels in God’s grace, but also where we find God's grace to be immanent and transcendent. When this is experienced, gratitude and praise are the natural emotions one feels and is movedto express.

My personality is not very extroverted; indeed, I am mostly drawn inward, to silence and to quiet conversations rather than to outward displays of exuberance (no surprise that I have the personality of a Quaker or a Buddhist…) This is not to say that I don’t feel a tremendous gratitude and praise for God. When the psalmist suggests all these outward displays of singing praise, I smile. Yes, we may praise in these noisy and jubilant ways – with the sound of the trumpet, or the high sounding symbols, the beat of the tambourines, and with the timbrel and dance as was once introduced into the temples and tabernacles, and is found today in modern churches. However… this jubilation and praise also happens in the heart, in the depths of our silence, in which we may be moved to tears with gratitude and love for this Absolute wonder of our lives. This is the feeling of rapture, of being so in love with the beloved, that one feels drunk with love and praise. And how does the silent heart sing God’s praise? Perhaps by being truly mindful, and by truly loving – by noticing and loving in a rich and warm and full manner for all that breathes, all that is experienced, and all that is given. Our own soft smile is a song of praise.

Praise the Lord

Looking up the definition of the word "praise", I read that it means "to set a price on", or "to commend the worth of, to express approval or admiration of, to laud the glory of, to extol". And it is offered in response to what another has done ... in response to their deeds.

I don't normally think about praising Jesus/God and when I hear the phrase "Praise the Lord", my mind adds the next line, "... and pass the ammunition" :-) (link) But sometimes I am grateful for the things I think he's done for me, for his deeds, and then sometimes I sing to him.

The one thing I miss the most about going to church is the music, and if , as Psalm #150 says, music qualifies as praise, then I did participate in it. Now that I'm not at church, I still sing to Jesus/God ... I sing the songs from a few "religious" music CDs (Taize and Robin Mark) but I think what he most likes are the songs of Peter and Gordon ... :-)

Nobody I know could love me more than you
You can give me so much love it seems untrue
Listen to the bird who sings it to the tree
And then when you've heard him, see if you agree
Nobody I know could love you more than me

Let everything that breathes praise the LORD!

This is the last psalm in the book of psalms.

It seems clear to me this Psalm was sung in corporate worship. It expresses a corporate experience of worship, celebration and praise. When I read the Hebrew scriptures looking for signs of what worship was like for the Israelites -- I keep running into the instructions of Leviticus about separating the fat from the organ meat before its burnt on the altar. In the Christian scriptures I see well-ordered synagogue worship looking for all the world like a classroom studying the ancient scrolls together.

But here. Here we hear calls to worship:

Praise him with tambourine and dance;
praise him with strings and pipe!
Praise him with clanging cymbals;
praise him with loud clashing cymbals!

Sounds strangely like a modern day Pentecostal praise service.

What I run up against here -- and I'm particularly mindful of it just coming out from under the Christmas celebrations of church and family -- is that for the biblical peoples and for maybe all cultures -- there are matter which seem like emotions, private, and personal experiences which are in fact treated like obligations and reinforced with coercive practices.

For scripture -- the two which fall into this category are love and joy. Scripture over and over again tells us, yea -- commands us -- to love and to rejoice and be glad. Happiness isn't a feeling isn't an experience that happens to us -- it is an obligation towards El Shaddai, God Almighty.

As a Christian I feel a certain obligation to take such things seriously -- this is not because the Bible is the wholly infallible Word of God but rather because millennia of faithful worship and witness affirms it. And this call to praise and worship takes the imperative case. It makes certain claims on me. And while I am free to accept or reject. There remains a claim to authority here.

But I'm more of an introverted type. I'm more drawn to study and meditation than to dancing around with tambourines. I have some choices.

I refuse to participate -- say 'no' to this whole project. I can participate (as quietly as I'm allowed to) while keeping my cognitive distance (my usual choice). I can lose myself in the celebration (something I find VERY difficult to do).

Let everything that breathes praise the LORD! Praise the LORD!

I deeper challenge than it appears on the surface. With Augustine I say Yes, Lord. But not yet.

Psalm 150

Praise the LORD! Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty firmament!

Praise him for his mighty deeds; praise him according to his surpassing greatness!

Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp!



Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe!

Praise him with clanging cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals!

Let everything that breathes praise the LORD! Praise the LORD!

Merry Christmas, Scripture Buddies :-)

Today, I'd like to remember Wenceslas, king of Bohemia in the 10th century ... read more about this saint here.



Good King Wenceslas looked out
On the feast of Stephen
When the snow lay round about
Deep and crisp and even
Brightly shone the moon that night
Though the frost was cruel
When a poor man came in sight
Gath'ring winter fuel

"Hither, page, and stand by me
If thou know'st it, telling
Yonder peasant, who is he?
Where and what his dwelling?"
"Sire, he lives a good league hence
Underneath the mountain
Right against the forest fence
By Saint Agnes' fountain."

"Bring me flesh and bring me wine
Bring me pine logs hither
Thou and I will see him dine
When we bear him thither."
Page and monarch forth they went
Forth they went together
Through the rude wind's wild lament
And the bitter weather

"Sire, the night is darker now
And the wind blows stronger
Fails my heart, I know not how,
I can go no longer."
"Mark my footsteps, my good page
Tread thou in them boldly
Thou shalt find the winter's rage
Freeze thy blood less coldly."

In his master's steps he trod
Where the snow lay dinted
Heat was in the very sod
Which the Saint had printed
Therefore, Christian men, be sure
Wealth or rank possessing
Ye who now will bless the poor
Shall yourselves find blessing


- Statue of St Wenceslas at Stara Boleslav

happy holy days or holly days or whatever

Christmas Link

another exit -- stage left (or perhaps right)

Robert (aka RW) has asked his name be removed from membership. Robert was useful to me by reminding me you didn't need to be left-wing to be a good Quake.

RW is also welcome to return when he feels so moved.

Clean Hands?

This psalm epitomizes O.T. religion, what Marcus Borg referred to as a 'purity' faith. In contrast Jesus was very unclean: talking with women! gentile women!, not washing his hands to eat. He said not one jot of the law should pass away. However the Sermon on the Mount shows the ways that Jesus transcended the law of Moses.

Speaking of Jesus Blake said he broke every one of the ten commandments and acted from pure virtue. So we're talking about two different kinds of purity: a religion of purity and a spirit of purity; the two are vastly different. You might say that the O.T. focuses on the first and Jesus the second. You might even say that the first is emphasized by (too) much of the conventional church, while the diaspora emphasizes the second.

God in all Things

The earth is the Lord’s and everything in it,
the world and all who live in it;
for he founded it upon the seas
and established it upon the waters.


This psalm seems to be speaking of panentheism. My blogging friend Jon writes, “One of the wildest aspects of mystical Christian thought lies in the simple truth that God is everywhere. And if God is in fact everywhere, then God is in all things, and all things are in God”. Mystical theologian Matthew Fox writes: "As the ocean is in the fish and the fish are in God, so God is in everything and everything is in God."

This concept is so fundamental, yet how difficult it is to wrap our minds around this. We tend to separate things into good and bad, of God and not of God, in fact we tend to even separate ourselves as not being of God. However, this psalm clearly suggests otherwise: God is in all things.

Psalm 24 / C

Who shall ascend the hill of the LORD? And who shall stand in his holy place? Those who have clean hands and pure hearts, who do not lift up their souls to what is false, and do not swear deceitfully.

I guess this sounds reasonable and right ... only the worthy shall be allowed to ascend the hill of the Lord, to stand in his holy place. But I think the interesting thing is how this reasonable logic has been obviatedby the gospel message ... now everyone is welcome. A homily I read recently speaks of this - link - and says, in part ...

... God the doorkeeper. Part of me would be very happy knowing that God has standards—high standards too—it’s the part of me that would look down on any club that would have me as a member …... I guess I want standards too. I guess I find it hard to believe that I don’t have to try and try and likely fail. I guess I’d rather fail than lay down the burden and let myself be loved. Because I guess it does come down to love and loving and being loved.

Psalm 23

The earth is the LORD's and all that is in it, the world, and those who live in it; for he has founded it on the seas, and established it on the rivers.

Who shall ascend the hill of the LORD? And who shall stand in his holy place?

Those who have clean hands and pure hearts, who do not lift up their souls to what is false, and do not swear deceitfully.

They will receive blessing from the LORD, and vindication from the God of their salvation.

Such is the company of those who seek him, who seek the face of the God of Jacob.

Selah

Lift up your heads, O gates! and be lifted up, O ancient doors! that the King of glory may come in.

Who is the King of glory? The LORD, strong and mighty, the LORD, mighty in battle.

Lift up your heads, O gates! and be lifted up, O ancient doors! that the King of glory may come in.

Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory.

Selah

a skripture study member moves on

Joe -- aka Beppe -- has asked his name be removed from membership. Joe introduced us -- or remidned us -- of the possibilities in the Friendly Bible Study approach of Joanne and Larry Spears and he introduced the Quaker blogging world to podcasting.

His energies are elsewhere. He is welcome to return when he feels so moved.

My Yogic Reflection

No, this is not another mistaken post like that of December 5 when I posted something here that was meant for unclimber. Sorry about that.

Psalm 2, I have no idea. It sounds violent and scary to me. I fear that I am having problems 'hearing' God through the Bible. I figure that God talks through many means and that the Bible is one of them. Let him who has ears hear. I hear nothing from Psalm 2. But, as Larry has said on his own blog, God talks to all of us and Larry wonders whether what God really wants is for us to ask our neighbors what God told them. I am enjoying reading what God has said to you.

I recently took a yoga class and the instructor would send us e-mails with a Yoga thought for the day, some meditation for us to ponder. These meditations didn't really do much for me, but she inadvertantly gave me one that did.

In one week's class, as I did my pose, I could hear the instructor move about the room saying to various students, "I'm here." I assumed she did that to alert them that she was about to touch them to assist or adjust them in their pose so that they wouldn't be startled.

I thought a lot about that simple "I am here" and all that it means

It means -- I will assist you, adjust you, help you move into the pose

It means -- you are not alone, I will travel with you on your spiritual path, I will be your friend

It means -- I am here, right now, in the present
I am not ruminating on the car that cut me off or a co-worker's comment that seemed insulting
I am not thinking about how I'm going to get a project done or Christmas cards out
I am not trying to escape or dull my senses
I am here

As a mother it reminds me that all my children require of me is that "I am here" for them
to listen to them and love them and care for them, its as simple as being here with them

As a Christian who has a lot of problems with the materiality and consumerism that surround Christmas, it says to me that God came down to be with us for awhile, to live with us, and teach us, and experience life the same way we do.

I am here.

Namaste

david's reflections on psalm 2

I think as Larry says, this in its original context, is the voice of a minor tribal chieftain. I'm not entirely comfy with the label barbarian as its is a label created by the Roman Empire to describe conquered peoples -- the bearded ones. Both anachronistic and ethnocentric. Besides -- I wear a beard!

Israel of this period struggled to keep its identity. It was surrounded by other Semitic peoples governed by their own tribal chieftains. They wanted to keep their territory, maintain their identity as the sons of Abraham, and somehow be faithful to this God of theirs. This kind of nationalism is far from dead -- it is far from being relegated to and ancient and primitive past. We may believe there is a better way -- but that has far from been proven by either history or international/interfaith consensus.

What wisdom or spiritual nourishment can I draw from this text despite this?

The power of politics is relative. God alone is king and those who claim the title for themselves will eventually fall.

The other powers and principalities and rulers of the dark air -- the things that rule my life and oppress me -- they too rule at the sufferance of God Almighty. They too will either serve spiritual ends, my liberation and the liberation of others, or they too will fall.

What originally was likely a hymn in honour of a king's coronation in Jerusalem, is taken up allegorically, typologically, spiritually, to point towards a day when God and God's ways will rule in my heart and life instead of all the petty potentates that direct my life now.

That is gospel. That is good news. Marana tha.

Laughable

The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD and his anointed, saying,

"Let us burst their bonds asunder, and cast their cords from us.

"He who sits in the heavens laughs; the LORD has them in derision.


These lines suggest that rulers, people held in esteem by others, or even those who just think that they are kings of the world sans God, who do not recognize God in all things, and who try to break their bonds with God, may think themselves free. However, God must just laugh at this. For how can anyone break his bond with God? It would be like a fish, breaking his bond with water, or a tree breaking its bond with the earth. We can no more separate ourselves from God than we can separate ourselves from the air that we breathe. It’s laughable to think otherwise.

This was so succinctly echoed by poet Kabir:

If you don't break your ropes while you're alive,
do you think
the ghosts will do it after?

and...

I laugh when I hear that the fish in the water is thirsty.

and now, poet Hafiz...

I have a thousand brilliant lies

for the question:

What is God?

If you think that the Truth can be known From words,

If you think that the Sun and the Ocean

Can pass throuh that tiny opening

Called the mouth,

O someone should start laughing!

Someone should start wildly laughing -

Now!

Psalm 2 - Yikes! / C

Serve the LORD with fear; with trembling bow down in homage, Lest God be angry and you perish from the way in a sudden blaze of anger

... The God of this psalm is more like a bully than a loving father, and seems underserving of respect or love, though he may indeed evoke fear.

Happy are all who take refuge in God!

... I think not - you'd always have the worry you might anger God and be turned into a pillar of salt.

I find it hard to reconcile the OT God and the NT God - they seem pretty different to me.

There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment, and so one who fears is not yet perfect in love. - 1 John 4:18

Why do the Heathen Rage?

(KJ version of Pslam 2): It takes one to know one, we used to say. Heathens indeed!

It helps to get some historical perspective: It's presumably about King David. (Some of the 'unlettered' believe that David wrote all the Psalms.) He was the tribal chieftan who "slew tens of thousands".

He was also the founder of the House of David, from which Jesus sprang.

So we have a contradiction here: a bloody, barbaric king, who was said to have written the most popular of the O.T. books, also founded the line from which the Messiah sprang.

This psalm is used in the N.T. to fill out the description of Jesus: "Thou art my beloved son in whom I am well pleased."

The psalm superficially sounds like Alley Oop, but it's like a filthy mine from which one brings forth diamonds. You might say that of the entire O.T. Out of the miry clay we came.

Psalm 2 (NRSV)

Why do the nations conspire, and the peoples plot in vain?

The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD and his anointed, saying,

"Let us burst their bonds asunder, and cast their cords from us."

He who sits in the heavens laughs; the LORD has them in derision.

Then he will speak to them in his wrath, and terrify them in his fury, saying,

"I have set my king on Zion, my holy hill."

I will tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my son; today I have begotten you.

Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession.

You shall break them with a rod of iron, and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."

Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth.

Serve the LORD with fear, with trembling

kiss his feet, or he will be angry, and you will perish in the way; for his wrath is quickly kindled. Happy are all who take refuge in him.

suggestions

The only vote thus far for next project is "something from the NT" from Crystal. That only narrows it down to what? Twenty-eight books?

We're only a few weeks from Christmas. Increasing time commitments.

I'm really the wrong guy to make suggestions at this point because I really haven't been present as I might and you folks have carried the load. But I'm going to propose a way forward anyway.

For the next three Mondays I will post one of the Psalms for your consideration. Folks can respond as they feel led. This will bring us into 2006.

During these same three weeks folks can consider whether this project should continue and in what form. We can then, in January, either begin afresh or lay it down, or change the format as we decide is best.

End of Thomas - LC

This marks the end of the Thomas study here. I may do some more Thomas work at one of my other blogs. Thanks for all the good work that so many here have done.

A personal note

Ellie and I began our Quaker adventure at Langley Hill MM in Northern VA in 1983. Tom Fox joined this meeting a year or two after we did. When we left there one of our closest friends, John Surr was the clerk of that meeting. He has sent this to me (and other friends), and I want to share it with people reading this blog:


John Surr
(301) 469-9170
Please reply to: surr@his.com

Begin forwarded message:

>
> ***We ask that you give the two urgent messages below your deepest consideration, and direct them on to others who share our concerns regarding the violent and unjust interruptions in the lives of people in Iraq on a daily basis. We have a special concern for the four Christian Peacemaker Team members abducted November 26, 2005.****
> ______________________________________
>
>
> WHO WE ARE: We are Langley Hill Monthly Meeting, of the Religious Society of Friends, the Meeting of Tom Fox, the member of the Christian Peacemaker Team from America who is being held hostage.
>
> WHAT WE ARE DOING: We are holding a public candlelight vigil for Tom Fox, other members of Christian Peacemaker Teams held with him, those who have taken them hostage, and the many individuals and families that have been negatively impacted by this war. The vigil will be held at Clarendon Metro Park, Arlington, Virginia, on Wednesday, Dec 7 from 7:00-9:00 pm EST. This park is at the Clarendon Metro stop between Wilson and Clarendon Blvds. We will read the text of Tom's work as found on his weblog: www.waitinginthelight.blogspot.com. Bring candles and dress warmly.
>
> WHAT WE ARE ASKING: For each and everyone to join us by:
> 1. Attending Wednesday evening's vigil in Clarendon.
> 2. Holding a similutaneous candlelight vigil in your community
> 3. If you cannot attend a vigil, then holding your own personal vigil; putting a candle in your window or on your front lawn
> 4. Reading Tom's postings found on his website
> 5. Holding Tom and his fellow CPT team members in the Light, seeking their safe and immediate release, and also those who suffer similar situations of captivity. We ask you to also hold their captors in the Light, that they might see why they must release their captives.
>
> We know that many people throughout the world have made efforts to secure the release of these hostages and we are grateful for their support.
> _____________________________________________
>
>
> AN APPEAL FROM LANGLEY HILL MONTHLY MEETING, RELIGIOUS SOCIETY OF FRIENDS, TO THE PEOPLE HOLDING TOM FOX AND THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE CHRISTIAN PEACEMAKER TEAM,
>
> Tom Fox, now being held captive in Iraq, is a beloved and longstanding member of our Quaker worship community. One of our strongly held beliefs is that if we listen, God can guide our lives. Before Tom went to Iraq, we considered with him his sense that he was being inspired by God to do what he could to relieve the suffering of individual Iraqis and to serve peace and justice. We were aware of the danger he faced. He went with our support and continues to have our support and love. We know Tom very well and can affirm that he is neither a spy nor an evangelist.
>
> The tenets of our Quaker faith ask us to work for peace in the world and to respect that of God in everyone. That is what led Tom to go to Iraq. We believe strongly in justice, mercy, and peace. We opposed this war as we oppose all wars. We believe in a God that is compassionate and merciful, as do the people of Iraq.
>
> We ask you as an act of justice, mercy, and devotion to release Tom and the other Christian Peacemaker Team members so that they can continue their work on behalf of those who suffer.
>
> Releasing the captives, so that they can continue to serve the Iraqi people, would be an act of dignity and courage.
>
> Signed,
>
> Langley Hill Monthly Meeting
> Religious Society of Friends
> Doug Smith, Clerk

Need more guidance

It appears that we have now looked at the 65 sayings that seem to be quite dissimilar to those in the other four gospels. This may be a good stopping point for Thomas. Or do you want to go on looking at the other 49?

Thomas 88 and 108 lc

(88) Jesus said: The angels come to you, and the prophets, and they shall give you what belongs to you; and you also, give what is in your hands, and say to yourselves: On what day do they come and take what is theirs?"

(Matt 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.)

(These two passages illustrate vividly the difference between Thomas and Matthew.)

Your angel and the prophets have given you spiritual treasures; as you share more and more of their vision, you come to realize who and what you are. But like love you must give it in order to keep it.

Who are 'they'? the ones to whom we have given the treasure of life while they stare uncomprehendingly? It is theirs, but they must 'take it'.
----------------------------
(I08) Jesus said: He who shall drink from my mouth shall become like me; I myself will become he, and the hidden thing shall be revealed to him.

(John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.)

Both of these verses point to our union with Christ.

The hidden thing is the secret we've heard so much about; it's indescribable; to reveal the secret is nonsensical to anyone except those who 'drink from his mouth' or 'drink his blood'.

(John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water .)

Saying 98 / C

(98) Jesus said: The kingdom of the Father is like a man who wanted to kill a great man. He drew the sword in his house and drove it into the wall, that he might know that his hand would be strong. Then he slew the great man.

I picked this one because it's so odd - I don't understand what it's supposed to mean, but here are some thoughrts ...

* this reminds me of places in the canonical gospels where Jesus discusses the cost of discipleship ... a dangerous and difficult undertaking must be seen for what it is and adequately prepared for ... Or what king marching into battle would not first sit down and decide whether with ten thousand troops he can successfully oppose another king advancing upon him with twenty thousand troops? - Luke 14:31

* Some commentators suggest that this is a story of an underdog who wishes to kill a bully, or a zealot who wishes to overturn Roman rule.

* Whatever the implied meaning, the fact that Jesus chose an example of a murder seems totally against the grain for one who asked people to forgive their enemies and turn the other cheek. It's possible he did this for shock value ... as in Luke 14:26 - "If any one comes to me without hating his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. .... But my personal opinion is that the saying is likely not authentic.

What Grandeur!

Logion 84

Yeshua said:
When you see
your true likeness,
you rejoice.
But when you see your icons,
those that were before you existed,
that never die and never manifest,
what grandeur!

The above translation is a bit different from the one Larry posted. Most striking is “How much will you bear,” has become, “What grandeur!” a seemingly different exclamation.

When Jesus says, “When you see your true likeness you rejoice,” my first inclination was to the early biblical passage that states, “God made man in his own image.” So, I wonder, is this true likeness the image of God? And/or, could this “true likeness” simply be our true self, sans ego, reputation, career, personality, relationships, yada yada…, but just fundamentally who we are underneath all of our labels and usual descriptions. I sense that it would be so freeing to just be able to be who we are without expectation of role and responsibility, something most of us likely only get an occasional glimpse of, and that occurs when we are lost to the world through an experience of something such as serious illness, deep meditation, or quiet solitude.

“But when you see your icons…” must be referring to something primordial, something that exists always, neither arising nor passing away, something unborn and undying… Again this primordial expression would be the image of God, the Absolute, the Source – that manifestation known by a thousand names, or no name at all. This is often referred to as “Your original face,” the face of God. So yes, “What grandeur!”

However, could it be that it is the grandeur that is already, everywhere present? Could this image, say it is the image of Light, be like our ordinary light, yet, because it is light, we cannot see the preexisting light that is always and ever present? Perhaps it is also that which we call the Light within, that indescribable quality of love and warmth and purity in the heart of each of us. What if we could “see” that? How much could we bear of this grandeur?

belated anniversary greetings

I was browsing the archives and realized that we've been at this for a year now. Our inaugural blog posting was November 10th 2004.

It doesn't seem that long. I just wanted to thank you all for making it something truly amazing.

The Last "Strange Sayings"

84) Jesus said: When you see your likeness, you rejoice; but when you see your images which came into being before you -- they neither die nor are made manifest -- how much will you bear?

(88) Jesus said: The angels come to you, and the prophets, and they shall give you what belongs to you; and you also, give what is in your hands, and say to yourselves: On what day do they come and take what is theirs?

(92) Jesus said: Seek, and ye shall find ; but those things concerning which ye asked me in those days, I did not tell you then. Now I wish to tell them, and ye seek not after them.

(98) Jesus said: The kingdom of the Father is like a man who wanted to kill a great man. He drew the sword in his house and drove it into the wall, that he might know that his hand would be strong. Then he slew the great man.

(I08) Jesus said: He who shall drink from my mouth shall become like me; I myself will become he, and the hidden thing shall be revealed to him.

okay lets be pragmatists for a moment/logion 60

60. They saw a Samaritan carrying a lamb going into Judaea. He said to his disciples: Why does he carry the lamb? They said to him: That he may kill it and eat it. He said to them: So long as it is alive he will not eat it, but if he kill it and it become a corpse. They said: Otherwise he will not be able to do it. He said to them: You also, seek for yourselves a place within for rest, lest you become a corpse and be eaten.

So I read Larry's comments about the symbolism of the lamb and then went to the Gospel of Thomas website to check out translation issues and scholarly stuff. And basically everyone is vexed about the arcane symbolism of the lamb.

And maybe its important to know.

But it occurred to me that Jesus was/is a teacher. And he 's sending his disciples out into the world as teachers -- teachers with a teaching the world doesn't particularly want to know/hear. And then it occurred to me that none of these fine scholars who worry at the meaning of this passage in their scholarly journals were every substitute teachers, teaching grade three classes in the public school system.



In this story the payoff is this: He said to them: Find a place within yourself for rest, or you're dead - and then they'll tear you apart and eat you.

As an ex-substitute teacher -- the advice makes perfect sense. As for the secret allegorical meaning of the lamb/Lamb -- I dunno. I jest dunno.

60 The Lamb -lc

60, They saw a Samaritan carrying a lamb going into Judaea. He said to his disciples: Why does he carry the lamb? They said to him: That he may kill it and eat it. He said to them: So long as it is alive he will not eat it, but if he kill it and it become a corpse. They said: Otherwise he will not be able to do it. He said to them: You also, seek for yourselves a place within for rest, lest you become a corpse and be eaten.

Rev. 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

This one is hard (for me), but Leloup offers some good clues:
"The lamb symbolizes innocence, vulnerability, the gift of ourselves , and the power of love....the dead lamb is the hardened heart." Jesus suggests that we protect the lamb and not kill it.

So it's the same story we find in almost every one of the sayings, aptly expressed by Paul in Romans 12:2: be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind. Being conformed to the world is killing the lamb.

Happy Thanksgiving, you guys! :-)

Be Passersby

Logion 42: Jesus said, "Be passersby."

This may be the shortest logion, yet it is rich for dialogue:

To me to be a passerby indicates someone who is traveling but does not stay, a casual observer, or onlooker, a person loose of association, a wanderer or itinerant person who is free in a way. Jesus says to take this stance as a passerby, perhaps, to encourage us to observe, to listen, to keep moving on, to not become static or to dwell.

Why would Jesus teach us to be passersby? Would it be because, as in the Buddhist tradition, suffering is thought to be caused by clinging and resisting change – so to understand impermanence alleviates this type of suffering?

There are many levels one could understand and adopt this teaching. One could become a traveler and not have a home. One could take on an attitude of detachment, to refuse to be defined by one’s circumstance or relationships. One could consider the spiritual journey as a path upon which we must keep moving, learning, and growing. However, to look more closely at our circumstance, we can recognize that everything already is passing by – there is little if anything that is truly permanent. Our homes, our jobs, our possessions, and our families – they are all impermanent. As is the natural world we see around us – even the mountains and the oceans. All things are always changing, never the same one moment to the next. The same is true of a dynamic spiritual journey.

William R. Schoedel translates the logion, "Jesus said: Come into being as you pass away." This translation gives a very different meaning to the logion to me. This suggests that one comes into the spiritual as you pass away from the material. One commenter on another site writes, “The admonition is to be as one who 'wears the world as a loose garment.' To be a passerby is to be one who has let go of the world and all its things--to be a person who is spiritual.” Another writes, “ The conscious personality is transient. Pass by those who regard themselves as fixed.”

So, in this logion, Jesus seems to be suggesting a certain detachment from the world and from opinions. A life style of detachment is a sort of social radicalism that rejects commonly held values. Perhaps this lack of involvement indicates an indifference, aloofness, and an impartiality of the material world in preference to the spiritual. This supports the argument that Crystal introduced regarding the difference between the dialectic and gnostic viewpoint, wherein “at the heart of (gnosticism) is the presumption that the material world is at best irrelevant and at worst evil.” On the other hand, perhaps to “Be passersby” is merely an invitation to tread lightly upon the world, to not become fixed or set in our ways, but to remain open and free to enjoy the natural and material world, encompassing all people, places, and ideas – all the riches that are bestowed.

Saying #28 / C

28, Jesus said: I stood in the midst of the world, and I appeared to them in the flesh. I found them all drunk, I found none among them thirsting; and my soul was afflicted for the sons of men, for they are blind in their heart and they do not see. For empty came they into the world, seeking also to depart empty from the world. But now they are drunk. When they have thrown off their wine, then will they repent.

Some points that struck me ...

I appeared to them in the flesh ...... this is a strangely un-gnostic thing to say, as elsewhere in Thomas, the flesh is said to be bad.

I found them all drunk ..... this part is very gnostic, though, according to Funk and Hoover. They write: "... the spiritual state of humanity, according to numerous gnostic texts, is stupefied with passion and drunkeness, blind to any spiritual understanding. The savior comes to awaken such persons to their true origins. This complex, accordingly, is a summary version of gnostic redeemer myths that depict the human condition and the possibility for salvation."

Some commentators think that many of the sayings of Thomas were originally not gnostic, but were revised at a later date to gnostic standards - or some see it the other way round. Perhaps this saying is an example of the combined gnostic and non-gnostic elements.

As I read the saying, a sort of off-subject thing also came to mind ... Dionysos. When people are drunk, they are in an altered state of consciousness - one which makes it hard to perceive reality as it truly is ... Dionysos is almost the opposite to Jesus ... he is the god of forgetfulness in wine, while Jesus wants to wake people up. Like the gnostics, the Orphics both identified the soul as separate from the body, and gave a reason for it being present in the body: it is being punished. Mystery cults :-).

An Aside ...

I hope you guys don't mind if I post this quote on Gnosticism - it seems relevant to our Thomas discussions. This is from an Interview with John Dominic Crossan in the Journal of Philosophy and Scripture ...

"JDC: My criticism of Gnosticism would be this: one of the most fundamental decisions we have to make, going back to dear old Plato, is whether the human being is a dialectic, in the same sense as before, of body and spirit, or if somehow that spirit or soul is only temporarily, possibly even unfortunately, joined to what is either a flea bag hotel or a magnificent palace called the body. But in either case the soul is only temporarily embodied until it goes home to its true spiritual abode. I think that this is the most radical question in Western philosophy. Whichever way you come down on this question, everything else will follow. If you think that human beings are actually incarcerated, entombed spirits, that we're simply renting bodies out, then everything else will follow. But if you think along with the Bible that somehow or other the body/soul amalgam is a dialectic, that you can distinguish but not separate them, then everything else will follow differently. So Gnosticism seems to be a perfectly good, linear descendent of Platonism (I'm not certain though what Plato himself would have said), but at the heart of it is the presumption that the material world is at best irrelevant and at worst evil. Those seem to be the fundamental options. You have to pick your position from there."

Here's a link to the whole interview - link

More Strange Sayings

28, Jesus said: I stood in the midst of the world, and I appeared to them in the flesh. I found them all drunk, I found none among them thirsting; and my soul was afflicted for the sons of men, for they are blind in their heart and they do not see. For empty came they into the world, seeking also to depart empty from the world. But now they are drunk. When they have thrown off their wine, then will they repent. (cf John 6:35)

42, Jesus said: Become passers-by. (cf John 13:1)

(43) His disciples said to him: Who art thou, that thou shouldst say these things to us? Jesus said to them From what I say unto you, you do not understand who I am, but you have become as the Jews; for they love the tree and hate its fruit, and they love the fruit and hate the tree. (cf John 8:25)

60, They saw a Samaritan carrying a lamb going into Judaea. He said to his disciples: Why does he carry the lamb? They said to him: That he may kill it and eat it. He said to them: So long as it is alive he will not eat it, but if he kill it and it become a corpse. They said: Otherwise he will not be able to do it. He said to them: You also, seek for yourselves a place within for rest, lest you become a corpse and be eaten. (cf Rev. 5:6)

(73-4) Jesus said: The harvest indeed is great, but the labourers are few; but pray the Lord, that he send forth labourers into the harvest. He said: Lord, there are many about the well, but no one in the well.

81, Jesus said: He who has become rich, let him become king, and he who has power let him deny it. (cf I Cor 4:8)

13 - The Bubbling Spring

(13) Jesus said to his disciples: Make a comparison to me, and tell me whom I am like. Simon Peter said to him: Thou art like a righteous angel. Matthew said to him: Thou art like a wise man of understanding. Thomas said to him: Master, my mouth will no wise suffer that I say whom thou art like. Jesus said: I am not thy master, because thou hast drunk, thou hast become drunk from the bubbling spring which I have measured out. And he took him, went aside, and spoke to him three words. Now when Thomas came to his companions, they asked him: What did Jesus say unto thee? Thomas said to them: If I tell you one of the words which he said to me, you will take up stones and throw them at me; and a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up."

To most of us this must appear very esoteric; however there are several references to the bubbling spring in the Bible:
Jeremiah 2:13,
Song of Solomon 4:15,
John 4:10-13,
John 7:38 (later versions say 'out of his heart'),
Revelation 7:17

I believe Thomas is more biblically oriented than most of us give him credit for.

Re "you will take up stones and throw them at me; and a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up" likely Thomas understood that those who got the straight message would be persecuted (like Steven), but would emerge victorious in the end.

eating the dead

(7) Jesus said: Blessed is the lion which the man shall eat, and the lion become man; and cursed is the man whom the lion shall eat, and the lion become man.

(11) Jesus said: This heaven shall pass away, and that which above it shall pass away; and they that are dead are not alive and they that live shall not die. In the days when you were eating that which is dead, you were making it alive. When you come in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you have become two, what will you do?

I think we've had these two before in different contexts. But what strikes me today -- after having lurked in the shadows for so long -- is a common thread. What we eat becomes us.

Larry notes the parallel with IPeter 5:8: Discipline yourselves, keep alert. Like a roaring lion your adversary the devil prowls around, looking for someone to devour.
(NRSV). That may be valid (if so I would include Genesis 4:7: If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door; its desire is for you, but you must master it." (NRSV) which doesn't mention lions but is I think what Peter had in mind.

I'm slower to leap into allegory than Larry (I get there but more circuitously) and I want to stay with the image of our food becoming us. The lion becomes man when the man eats the lion. The man becomes lion when the lion eats the man. When we eat the dead the dead become alive.

And the blessing rests on that which becomes the higher when it is consumed.

I'm not altogether sure where Thomas wants us to take this. But the central rite of the canonically based churches is the rite of Eucharist wherein we eat Jesus' flesh and drink his blood and so become the church the body of Christ on earth.

The end of the project seems to be apotheosis -- or to use a term more comforting to at least some Christians -- divinization.

Gone Fishing

Logion 8 Yeshua said: Man is like a wise fisherman, who cast his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of small fish. Among them the wise fisherman found a large good fish. He threw down all the small fish into the sea; he chose the large fish without trouble. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

When Jesus said that “a human being is like a wise fisherman,” this is the beginning of parable. So what do wise fishermen do? They cast lines or nets, catch fish, and empty their nets, keeping the larger fish and returning the smaller fish back to the sea. This is similar to the way my mind works in meditation. I realize this when I am very quiet, and watch my own thoughts. My mind starts floating wide – like a net out in the water, catching thoughts. When I pull in my thoughts, I realize I have many small and useless thoughts – which are mere distractions. But there are some thoughts that are big. Big as in thoughts about God. This is the only really important thought. Upon focusing on this thought, the smaller thoughts drift away, dissipating like small fish going back into the water.

These teachings in the manner of a parable provide each of us with a message that speaks to us individually. Thus, if you have ears to hear this, hear it for you. What does the parable spark in you?

Just a note ...

I came across a blog that I think you guys might be interested in ...

Religions of the Ancient Mediterranean blog

... there are some posts on non-canonical gospels, including Thomas. One page I'm reading now - http://www.misericordia.edu/users/davies/thomas/arnal.htm - is about Thomas ... whether it relies on the other gospels, when it was written, and whether it is indeed gnostic. Pretty interesting :-)

A Quaker wiki? / Z

This is semi-off topic, but semi-on topic; I hope this is ok to post. This was partly sparked by Meredith telling me that you all previously worked on James and John, and me thinking how great it would be if there were an organized page on those posts, rather than having to page through the archives.

My question: I'm wondering whether anyone is interested in starting or working on some sort of Quaker wiki. I'm assuming everyone is somewhat familiar with wikis.

Below I've written some things I think one could be used for. I actually have already gotten one set up here on a free wiki-hosting site; the question is whether it'd be best to use that one (currently it's pretty much empty of any content), or start a different one. I can give my take on the pros and cons if people are interested.

Possible uses it could have for this blog:
· An easy way to collaboratively create a detailed catalog of/guide to our 400+ posts
· A way to perhaps collaboratively work on an entry before posting it — either altogether, or in spontaneously arranged groups (like "Hey Zach let's co-write an entry on logion 104"). This would probably be an efficient way to develop long, detailed posts if anyone had an inkling in that direction.

Possible uses for the Quaker blogosphere in general:
· Other people could easily create similar catalogs of their posts.
· People involved in other communal blogs, like the communal blog on early Quaker texts and history I'd like to start sometime, could in the same way develop entries collaboratively before posting.
· Recurring themes in different blogs could have pages on the wiki with links to the various blog postings, rather than people having to pore through various blog archives to find posts they feel are important. Like, there could be a page called Plain dress which could include links to the many blog entries on that subject (and relieve Martin of the duty of having to keep up with them all by himself).

And (sorry to keep going on!) a few possible uses for Friends in general:
· More detailed information about things that aren't encyclopedic enough to be in Wikipedia
· A ridiculously simple way for local, regional, (and even yearly) meetings to create and update home pages. Right now, most meetings either have no webpage, or ones that are hard to find and/or not very attractive. Example: this page on my monthly meeting took about ten minutes to create, is easy for anyone in my meeting to update, and couldn't exist on Wikipedia.

(Hopefully you can see that although Wikipedia, the biggest wiki, is an encyclopedia, not all wikis have to be in that genre. For example, there is an Orthodox Christian wiki, which I think is a great idea, but I think they may be limiting themselves by being a wiki-encyclopedia on Orthodoxy, rather than a multi-purpose wiki for and about Orthodox Christianity. So I'm not just proposing a Quaker encyclopedia wiki, but a wiki that could be used for a huge number of Quaker related things, encyclopedic and not.)

What do you think?

Who's Your Daddy? / C

(15) Jesus said: When you see him who was not born of woman , throw yourselves down upon your face and worship him. He is your Father.

The first thing I thought of when reading this saying was the line from the play Macbeth ... Fear not, Macbeth; no man that's born of woman Shall e'er have power upon thee. .... In the play, of course, such a man did exist - someone who was taken from his mother's womb before he was born in the natural manner.

Who ever is born must have a beginning and an end, and is finite. Jesus was known to be born of a woman, Mary, so perhaps this saying isn't meant to be about hum. Or it's possible that Thomas held the ganostic belief that the spiritual Christ was not born, but decended on Jesus when he was baptised and left before he was crucified. To say that this person not born of woman is Jesus and to also say he is the Father, is similar to Joh's gospel saying of Jesus and the Father being one ... go Trinity :-)

Strange Sayings I

Our study of Thomas has been fruitful, and we have become (somewhat) versed in the writer's thought forms and values. We come now to some (perhaps) more difficult sayings to interpret and hopefully find positive meaning in.

I tagged 21 sayings as 'strange', perhaps without strong associations with the other gospels and sort of like riddles (to me at least); here are the first five of those:

(7) Jesus said: Blessed is the lion which the man shall eat, and the lion become man; and cursed is the man whom the lion shall eat, and the lion become man. (cf I Peter 5:8)

(8) And he said: Man is like a wise fisherman, who cast his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of small fish. Among them the wise fisherman found a large good fish. He threw down all the small fish into the sea; he chose the large fish without trouble. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

(11) Jesus said: This heaven shall pass away, and that which above it shall pass away; and they that are dead are not alive and they that live shall not die. In the days when you were eating that which is dead, you were making it alive. When you come in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you have become two, what will you do?

(13) Jesus said to his disciples: Make a comparison to me, and tell me whom I am like. Simon Peter said to him: Thou art like a righteous angel. Matthew said to him: Thou art like a wise man of understanding. Thomas said to him: Master, my mouth will no wise suffer that I say whom thou art like. Jesus said: I am not thy master, because thou hast drunk, thou hast become drunk from the bubbling spring which I have measured out. And he took him, went aside, and spoke to him three words. Now when Thomas came to his companions, they asked him: What did Jesus say unto thee? Thomas said to them: If I tell you one of the words which he said to me, you will take up stones and throw them at me; and a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up.

(15) Jesus said: When you see him who was not born of woman , throw yourselves down upon your face and worship him. He is your Father.

Of Circles and Chakras

I've been in a spiritual funk for...well, I don't know how to measure it. After Sept. 11, 2001, fear and uncertainty drove me to examine my religion. I was a biblical illiterate and it was time to change that.

For three years I took a fundamentalist Bible study that taught me much and brought me much joy. And yet, I didn't feel authentically me when I was there. I felt I was playing a part. Also, I was tired of trying to find time to do the homework while being home full-time with two young children.

And, of course, I met Larry. Without intending to, I think, he showed me the narrowness of my view. This was both thrilling and terrifying for me, but I knew it was time for me to leave the comfortable confines of the Bible study I had been taking. This blog was born at the same time and it filled the void. I was also active in a Bible study at my church, an Episcopal parish. So my religious background is liberal Protestant. I took a non-denominational but conservative Bible study for three years. I was a bit in conflict with myself. Also, I was becoming a homeschooler and my take on homeschooling is about freedom from the confines of institutional schooling. A collision with my religion was inevitable. How can I reject the confines of school without questioning the confines of church?

Very recently, through my homeschooling friends, I have been invited to join a Women's Circle. Its a spiritual discussion group (for more on Women's Circles, you can read this; however, we're just a group of friends, we aren't affliated with any other group) I attended one session, quit, and have just rejoined the Circle. Why did I quit? A lot of it was logistical (I don't like driving at night), but I think there were shades of fear. I was afraid of leaving the confines of conventional religion. I'm afraid of going to hell. Yes, even though from a fundamentalist perspective, I'm on an express train to hell anyway (being a liberal Protestant whose sect consecrated a gay bishop), the further away I get, the more I worry. It makes no sense.

It made no sense until our Circle discussed chakras. I don't know how familiar you are with them, I am not very familiar. But I took an on-line test and found out that my 6th Chakra, the Third Eye is underactive. From the website:

6 - Third Eye chakra
The Third Eye chakra is about insight and visualisation. When it is open, you have a good intuition. You may tend to fantasize.
If it is under-active, you're not very good at thinking for yourself, and you may tend to rely on authorities. You may be rigid in your thinking, relying on beliefs too much. You might even get confused easily.

I thought that was very astute -- I have known for some time that I rely too much on authorities and I'm frequently saying that I'm confused.

The practices to open this Third Eye involve meditation and I don't know that I'll be doing them, but right now, I am meditating on the idea that I'm too attached to the authority of church doctrine and that it is holding me back.

107 The 90 and 9

107, Jesus said: The kingdom is like a shepherd who had hundred sheep. One of them, the biggest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine and sought after the one till he found it. When he had laboured, he said to the sheep: I love thee more than the ninety-nine.

This one seems like a copy of Matthew 18:12 "How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?", except for the last line.

It might suggest once more that love is an activity more than a feeling. Not much activity required for those in the fold, but 'going into the mountains'? Sounds like real work; call it love.

Love "Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things" (1st Corinthians 13:7). Love isn't about feeling.

Where I'm At and Another Gathering

I am the ghost of bloggers past....

Hello, my dear friends. I don't know why I kept falling away, but I always come back. I'd like to respond to Larry's post about Another Gathering. I don't feel resistant to Thomas, I'm just not terribly interested in the Bible right now, which is why I'm not around much. I enjoy commenting on other members' posts, but I don't have much to say on this topic.

However, I am spiritually seeking. I feel as if I'm shifting and changing and I'd really like to talk about that here with you, if that would be acceptable to others. I know when we first began this blog -- one year ago! -- Larry talked about sharing our journeys. I would like to do that -- not to take away from the on-going discussion, but sort of as sidebar chatter and for the opportunity to read your comments.

What say you?

Kill the Buddha

98, Jesus said: The kingdom of the Father is like a man who wanted to kill a great man. He drew the sword in his house and drove it into the wall, that he might know that his hand would be strong. Then he slew the great man.

I was just looking over these passages, and this one kind of lit up for me. When I first read it, I was offended, put off by the murderous language. On this reading, however, I saw it totally differently.

I was reminded of the famous old saying in Buddhism, “If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.”

The historical Buddha, Shakyamuni, on attaining enlightenment, is said to have realized that all beings, just as they are, are Buddhas. So in essence, Buddha is not going to be found outside of your self. The slogan suggests slaying the notion that you could ever meet the true Buddha along the road.

Similarly, in Luke 17:21 - nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you.

The scripture above says the Kingdom of God is like a man who wanted to kill a great man. He drew his sword inside his house. I wonder if "inside his house" means within himself. It could be that the great man to be killed is not your true self, but the great false self. This scripture alludes to the way that this is achieved is by striking down the walls. This takes great strength, and great courage. Getting the large false ego out of the way, slaying it so to speak, makes one open to the true self, and allows the kingdom of God within you to be more fully expressed. So, this scripture seems to be saying, kill or put away what you think is so great about yourself, become humble in order to see the kingdom of God.

new member

Zach has been given the freedom of the meeting. A link to his blog appears in the sidebar.

Welcome Zach.

On what day will the Kingdom come?

Logion 113

His disciples said to him: On what day will the kingdom come? : It cometh not with observation. They will not say: Lo, here! or: Lo, there! But the kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it.

Main Point: When the disciples ask when will the kingdom come, or when will God come, Jesus tells the disciples it will not come by watching and waiting for it. There will not be one who sees it first over there, or over there, for it is already everywhere. Yet people just do not see it.

New Light: “People just do not see it.” I smile wondering what it would be like if everyone could just see “it,” if all could just know that this kingdom is right here everywhere, right now.

Problems: Implicit in the notion that God is already everywhere is the difficult realization that God is also in suffering. How readily we see God in the sunrise, or in a mother’s delicate embrace of her infant, but how we push away the notion that God could be present in an untimely accidental death, or in war, or any natural or human tragedy.

True to my experience: For most of my life, I could “not see it.” So yes, this is true to my experience. But several experiences, particularly in suffering, I began to see the gentleness, the power, and the magic and mystery of God. Maybe the reason for this was that in suffering it seems that my heart was very soft, looking everywhere for comfort. Finding this comfort, and feeling the love and beauty of the kingdom right in front of and within me was the most amazing experience of my life. For many, I realize, the opposite happens, and in suffering one’s heart becomes hard, closed, angry and bitterly shuts down. Perhaps it is in the clinging to the notion that God represents only beauty, love and goodness, and pushing away any suffering and calling it evil, that it is so difficult for us to see God in all things. This duality, of good and evil, God and non-God, seems to be an invention of ours.

Saying 49 / C

49, Jesus said: Blessed are the solitary and the elect, for you shall find the kingdom; for you came forth thence, and shall go there again.

To me, this is one of Thomas' most Gnostic sayings. There are three elements that srruck me ...

(1) blessed are the solitary - there is a tradition of solitary mysticism in christianity, but for the most part, there is an emphasis on community ... For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. - Matthew 18:20.

(2) blessed are the elect - the idea that only certain people are worthy or capable of being "saved" is both exclusionary and elitist.

(3) Commentators (The Jesus Seminar) Funk and Hoover write ..... Thomas 49 depicts Thomas Christians as those who have come into the world from another realm, to which they will one day return. This is a central tenet of the mythology of gnosticism.

On the whole, to me at least, this saying is sort of disconcerting, though I suspect it's meant to be comforting, and will be so to the other more gnostically inclined members of the blog :-)


- Blake's The Ladder

The Kingdom of God -Sayings

Here are 5 sayings that seem to bear on the kingdom of
heaven:

49, Jesus said: Blessed are the solitary and the elect,
for you shall find the kingdom; for you came forth
thence, and shall go there again.

57, Jesus said: The kingdom of the Father is like a man
who had [good] seed. His enemy came by night, he sowed a weed among the good seed. The man did not allow them to pull up the weed. He said to them: Lest perhaps you go to pull up the weed, and pull up the wheat with it. For on the day of harvest the weeds will be manifest; they will be pulled up and burned.

98, Jesus said: The kingdom of the Father is like a man
who wanted to kill a great man. He drew the sword in
his house and drove it into the wall, that he might
know that his hand would be strong. Then he slew the
great man.

107, Jesus said: The kingdom is like a shepherd who had hundred sheep. One of them, the biggest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine and sought after the one till he found it. When he had laboured, he said to the sheep: I love thee more than the ninety-nine.

113 His disciples said to him: On what day will the
kingdom come? : It cometh not with observation. They will not say: Lo, here! or: Lo, there! But the kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it.

request to join

WE have a request to join our blog.

Zach Alexander aka the Quaker Anarchist has asked to join our scripture study.

I'm sympatico with the idea if all bodies here are also happy with this.

I have noticed a curious thing. We seem to be steady at four active members. Whenever someone new comes along somebody drops into lurker status. Don't know why. But there you be.

I will likely be the next lurker -- if I'm not de fact already. I don't see myself as a meaningful presence here until first week of December. Sorry folks I'm just really burnt out right now. My own blog has also suffered.

C'est la vie

Post your votes as comments here or if you'd rather not email me at kwakersaur@lycos.com.

And to those out there in lurker city. If you have changed your mind about being here let me know and I'll remove your name. If you just want to hang out without posting but retain your membership for future use that's great too. Just let me know where thee is at.

CBC News: Key day for United Church union push

Now here's an interesting sitaution.

CBC News: Key day for United Church union push

The New Birth to Oneness

4 Jesus said: The man aged in his days will not
hesitate to ask a little child of seven days about
the place of life, and he shall live. For there
are many first who shall be last, and they shall
become a single one.

Thomas joins the 'Four Gospels', all of whom remind us that we must be born again and/or that we must become 'as little children'. The baptism signifies the new birth, and when you come out of the water, you are as a little child - spiritually speaking. All five writers wanted us to understand that there are two kinds of life-- two lives in fact: the material and the spiritual.

Before he met John the Baptist, Jesus lived in the first mode, perhaps more perfectly than anyone else ever has. Coming out of the water he was someone else-- a spirit filled person. He did this to show us how to live.

The second part of the logion repeats the words of the three synoptics, with some amplification: those who hear the child "become a single one", God's answer to the prayer of Jesus in John 17.

So we go from the natural child to the spiritual child to complete oneness with God. PTL.

On the day when you are naked...

Logion 37 His disciples said: On what day wilt thou be revealed to us, and on what day shall we see thee? Jesus said: When you unclothe yourselves and are not ashamed, and take your garments and lay them beneath your feet like little children, and tread upon them, then [shall ye see] the Son of the living One, and ye shall not fear.


Main Point: In this logion, Jesus refers to becoming unclothed, naked, and unashamed, to become innocent and free from fear. Garments symbolize all that covers our essential self – all of our identifications, roles, even our personalities. To rid ourselves of this outer façade is to become exposed and vulnerable, it is also to become bare of identity. In this state of empty innocence, we are without prejudice and are thus looking with pure eyes into what is truly real. This lack of projection means that we have no experience with which to create fear.

New Light: Dropping our veils prepares us for a sacred embrace, or sacred lovemaking with the divine. This is what the mystics Kabir, Rumi, and Hafiz write about, and why their love poems have the potential to touch us so deeply – because through our own naked exposure and openness, we realize our truest lover is actually God.

Problems / Questions: Such beautiful, romantic notions. But how do we even step in this direction of becoming open, exposed, and naked in our world today? What does this even look like? Working on a psychiatric unit I saw individuals in severe psychosis who untied reason, forgot their names, went naked, and lost control of their being. It wasn’t a pretty picture. Is it suggested here that we must step on this threshold of insanity in order to see and know God? Or is true pathology clinging to this world we think of as rational and sane?

True to my Experience: I see that there is truth embedded in this logion, beautiful truth. And I see that it is poetry. In this poetic truth we are reminded that our conditioning like our outer clothing actually separates us from God. Coincidently, I wrote about this very notion just last week on my blog.

I wrote about this because I realized that I have tended to become very involved in my own little stories. Most of us build up complex narratives of who we see ourselves to be based on our experience and culture. I have clung to my narrative in ways that have caused suffering. I now grasp that the narratives I have kept are not my true, essential self. The stories I have always told about myself are not fundamentally who I am. Loosening my grip on the identity I have assumed, for example that I am my relationships or my profession, or that I am my personality characteristics or my history, allows me to be so much freer to be genuinely open to the presence of God, to even be in true love with God. This is not about losing my grasp of reality, but rather about forging ahead without all my “certain certainties,” or old beliefs and baggage.

On this journey of becoming less encumbered, I have become willing to be less identified, and willing not to know. For me it seems to be true that getting myself out of the way has allowed the gift of an ever deepening communion. I still must live and work and function in this world, but hopefully I do so skillfully, where my identity and personality is functional, where reason and intellect are my servants, but my heart is nakedly exposed to God.

Saying 46 / C

[46]. Jesus says: "From Adam to John the Baptist, among those who have been born of women, there is none greater than John the Baptist! But for fear that the eyes should be lost I have said: He who among you shall be the small shall know the Kingdom and be higher than John!"

*****

Most commentators seem to thinkthat this saying was a retelling, with some changes, of Matthew 11:11-12 ... Amen, I say to you, among those born of women there has been none greater than John the Baptist; yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, 9 and the violent are taking it by force.

The meaning - the NAB says ... "John's preeminent greatness lies in his function of announcing the imminence of the kingdom (⇒ Matthew 3:1). But to be in the kingdom is so great a privilege that the least who has it is greater than the Baptist."

What I find interesting is the relationship between Jesus and John the Baptist. If I understand correctly, based on the interaction between Mary and Elizabeth, Jesus and John were relatives, perhaps cousins. They were very close in age, probably knew each other growing up, and they both chose the religious life. Jesus asked John to baptise him and they both continued to preach for a time (about 6 more months for John?), though their styles were very different ... John was an ascetic who wore rope fiber clothing and ate "locusts and wild honey" (Matt. 3:4) ... Jesus, however, was seen by some as a drunkard and a glutton. The NAB says there was likely some tension between the followers of Jesus and John, and John did lose a few disciples to Jesus.

I suppose all of this had some influence on the saying in Matthew. The question arises of why Thomas, if he did get the saying from Matthew, decided to change it somewhat. Maybe it had to do with the Gnostic view of John? According to Wikipedia ... In Gnosticism, John the Baptist was a "personification" of the Old Testament prophet Elijah. According to Gnostic theology, John the Baptist was a Prophet from the Old Testament who did not know the True God (the God of the New Testament), and thus had to be reincarnated. As predicted by the Old Testament prophet Malachi, Elijah must "come first" to herald the coming of Jesus Christ.

The child

We come now to a series of sayings which contain
the child:

4 Jesus said: The man aged in his days will not
hesitate to ask a little child of seven days about
the place of life, and he shall live. For there
are many first who shall be last, and they shall
become a single one.

21 Mary said to Jesus: Whom are thy disciples like?
He said They are like little children dwelling in a
field which is not theirs. When the owners of the
field come, they will say: Yield up to us our field.
They are naked before them, to yield it up to them
and to give them back their field. Therefore I say:
If the master of the house knows that the thief is
coming, he will keep watch before he comes, and
will not let him dig into his house of his kingdom
to carry off his vessels. You, then, be watchful
over against the world. Gird up your loins with
great strength, that the brigands may not find a
way to come at you, since the advantage for which
you look they will find. May there be among you a
man of understanding! When the fruit was ripe, he
came quickly, his sickle in his hand, and reaped
it. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

[22 has already been extensively commented on,
but included here in the interests of consistency.]
22 Jesus saw some infants at the breast. He said
to his disciples: These little ones at the breast
are like those who enter into the kingdom. They
said to him: If we then be children, shall we
enter the kingdom? Jesus said to them: When you
make the two one , and when you make the inside
as the outside, and the outside as the inside,
and the upper side as the lower; and when you make
the male and the female into a single one , that
the male be not male and the female female; when
you make eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand
in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot,
an image in place of an image, then shall you
enter [the kingdom].

37 His disciples said: On what day wilt thou be
revealed to us, and on what day shall we see thee?
Jesus said: When you unclothe yourselves and are
not ashamed, and take your garments and lay them
beneath your feet like little children, and tread
upon them, then [shall ye see] the Son of the
living One, and ye shall not fear.

46 Jesus said: From Adam to John the Baptist
there is none born of woman who is higher than
John the Baptist, so that his eyes will not be
broken (?) But I have said, He who shall be
among you as a little one shall know the kingdom,
and shall be higher than John.

Logion 29

29 Jesus said: If the flesh has come into being because of the spirit, it is a marvel; but if the spirit (has come into being) because of the body, it is a marvel of marvels. But as for me, I marvel at this, how this great wealth has settled in this poverty.

Which is scarier? That spirit might be the cause/origin of flesh or that it is flesh that is the cause/origin of spirit?

Perhaps this life is a soul-making factory. Perhaps we aren't born with spirits but they are created in us as we turn our attentions our consciousness away from life as it is and imagine a life that could be and there find ourselves confronted by a God waiting for us.

How I read this passage is conditioned by all sorts of prior reading hearing knowing and half-knowing.

When I read Paul and the many many many spiritual writers from within the Christian traditions that followed him - and I'm thinking especially of writers like the anonymous author of Theologia Germanica -- I hear the word flesh and think not meat blood and bone but that spirit that reigns and rules in me despite my better intentions -- that spirit of self-will whose constant mantra is me, my, mine.

But when I hear this in Thomas I'm less certain of the sense of it. That prior reading hearing knowing and half-knowing tells me Thomas was a Gnostic -- or more cozy with them than John and Paul were. And I associate Gnosticism with those folks who have swerved from the truth by claiming that the resurrection has already taken place (2 Timothy 2:18). For them flesh is matter and matter doesn't matter. For them they have already entered the kingdom in its fullness. The Ranters that George Fox distanced himself from. Those who felt they had attained the divinity that Christ was the seal and promise of.

But also I know that all I know of these people is the preserved writings of those who disagreed with them and who disagreed so violently they were willing to imagine a just and loving God consign these people to flames throughout eternity.

Saying 14 - LC

14 Jesus said to them: If you fast, you will beget
a sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be
condemned; and if you give alms, you will do an
evil to your spirits.
And if you go into any land and travel in its
regions, if they receive you eat what they set
before you. Heal the sick among them. For that
which goes into your mouth will not defile you,
but that which comes forth from your mouth, that
is what will defile you.

I have to wonder if Thomas isn't commenting on one
(or more) of the synoptics:

Matt 6:16-18: Jesus (in both gospels) was conscious
of the spiritual cost involved in hypocritical
fasting, praying, and giving alms that are no doubt
prevalent among us, and likely within us.

In Thomas Jesus speaks more incisively about these
things, you might say mercilessly, and he does it
here in such a way that if we're guilty, we're
condemned and if we're innocent, then we're likely
just confused.

In the second paragraph he has addressed two other
passages from the synoptic account: Matt 10:5-8 and
15:11.

The saying illustrates how close to the other gospels
Thomas is. We don't know which one came first, but
if we postulate that Thomas was later, then we see
that he had a close familiarity with the others. In
fact two thirds of his sayings are close relatives
of synoptic verses, and students of Thomas can cite
a relative verse in all of them.

It still pains me very much to realize that the
'Church Fathers' banned it and in fact made a
concerted attempt to destroy it.

Saying #29

(29) Jesus said: If the flesh came into existence because of the spirit, it is a marvel. But if the spirit (came into existence) because of the body, it is a marvel of marvels. But as for me, I wonder at this, how this great wealth made its home in this poverty.

This saying expresses the disctinction for gnostics between the spirit and the flesh (or matter). There is a contempt for the material and a veneration for the spiritual ... they believed we were more truly of the spirit (this great wealth) and are only temporarily mired here in matter (this poverty).

While there are some similar references in the canonical gospels, for the most part, this ascetic philosophy seems alien to the Jesus portrayed elsewhere. For instance, in Luke 7:34 and Matthwe 11:19, Jesus is accussed of being a drunkard and a glutton. And Jesus' bodily resurrection would seem to imlpy that we are not made spiriit only after death, but that we still have bodies material enough to be touched/felt by others and material enough to enjoy the consumption of food ... ... "Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you can see I have " ... he asked them, "Have you anything here to eat?" They gave him a piece of baked fish; he took it and ate it in front of them. - Luke 24:39-43

It is through this philosophy that spirit and matter are oppossed, that the idea of who Jesus really was/is becomes problematic. According to gnostics, Jesus descends from the realm of spirits to dispenses gnosis and awaken those trapped in ignorance; the body is a prison, and the spirit alone is good; and salvation comes by discovering the "kingdom of God" within the self. He had no part in matter, did not suffer in death (First Apocalypse of James: "Never have I suffered in any way, nor have I been distressed"), was not bodily resurrected.

While I flinch at calling gnostics "world-hating dualists" :-) I must disagree with this ethical division between the material and the spiritual, if only because of what it says about the nature of Jesus and our own state after death.

If the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also, through his Spirit that dwells in you. - Romans 8:11

Flesh and Spirit

This group is about flesh and spirit. (Some of
them may have already been dealt with, but in
another context.)

14 Jesus said to them: If you fast, you will beget
a sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be
condemned; and if you give alms, you will do an
evil to your spirits.
And if you go into any land and travel in its
regions, if they receive you eat what they set
before you. Heal the sick among them. For that
which goes into your mouth will not defile you,
but that which comes forth from your mouth, that
is what will defile you.

29 Jesus said: If the flesh has come into being
because of the spirit, it is a marvel; but if the
spirit (has come into being) because of the body,
it is a marvel of marvels. But as for me, I marvel
at this, how this great wealth has settled in this
poverty.

53 His disciples said to him: Is circumcision
profitable or not? He said to them: Were it
profitable, their father would beget them from
their mother circumcised. But the true
circumcision in spirit has proved entirely
profitable (lit.: has found usefulness
altogether).

112 Jesus said: Woe to the flesh which depends
upon the soul; woe to the soul which depends upon
the flesh.

114 Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go forth
from among us, for women are not worthy of the
life. Jesus said: Behold, I shall lead her, that I
may make her male, in order that she also may
become a living spirit like you males. For every
woman who makes herself male shall enter into the
kingdom of heaven.

Me blogging again

Just a note ... I've started up my personal blog again. Now it's here for anyone who might be interested - http://povcrystal.blogspot.com - link

Another Gathering

I have a feeling that some have developed some
resistance to Thomas. That suggests two
additional options:

At this point we could go 'Back to the Bible',
as they say.

Or we could look at some of the Sayings that more
closely resemble the 'four gospels'.

I await some input on those suggestions.

A Lesson Plan for Gainesville

Gang, I'm departing from the usual format and
imposing upon your generosity with this post:

Ellie and I lead a Thomas class at our monthly
meeting; it meets this first day. They have had
something near an equal exposure to Thomas. Ellie
came up with what seems to me like a smashing
plan. It will likely be the end of our study of
that book-- at Gainesville:

She sees Thomas' way as a six stage journey:

1. There is hidden truth. (Sayings 3 and 5)

2. We learn to see things differently. (Sayings
4, 17, and 51)

3. Reconciling two worlds (Sayings 22 and 29)

4. Becoming One (50,70)

5. Manifesting the openness (24, 49, 83, 106)

6. Inner awareness: living each moment by
self-knowledge (77, 91, 111)

If you feel led, I would appreciate input here;
otherwise I will come forth with another post.
(Of course some may have copies of Thomas with
different numbering. (The links access the
appropriate saying below.)

Blessings to all.

Here are the sayings:


(3) Jesus said: If those who lead you say unto
you: Behold, the Kingdom is in heaven, then the
birds of the heaven will be before you. If they
say unto you: It is in the sea, then the fish will
be before you. But the Kingdom is within you, and
it is outside of you. When you know yourselves,
then shall you be known, and you shall know that
you are the sons of the living Father. But if ye
do not know yourselves, then you are in poverty,
and you are poverty.


(4) Jesus said: The man aged in
his days will not hesitate ask a little child of
seven days about the place of life, and he shall
live. For there are many first who shall be last,
and they shall become a single one.


(5) Jesus said: Know what is before thy face, and
what is hidden from thee shall be revealed unto
thee; for there is nothing hidden which shall not
be made manifest.


(17) Jesus said: I will give you that which eye
has not seen, an ear has not heard, and hand has
not touched, and which has not entered into the
heart of man.


22) Jesus saw some infants at the breast. He said
to his disciples: These little ones at the breast
are like those who enter into the kingdom. They
said to him: If we then be children, shall we
enter the kingdom? Jesus said to them: When you
make the two one , and when you make the inside as
the outside, and the outside as the inside, and
the upper side as the lower; and when you make the
male and the female into a single one , that the
male be not male and the female female; when you
make eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in
place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, an
image in place of an image, then shall you enter
[the kingdom].


(24) His disciples said: Teach us concerning the
place where thou art, for it is necessary for us
to seek after it. He said to them: He that hath
ears, let him hear. There is a light within a man
of light, and it gives light to the whole
world. If it does not give light, there is
darkness.


(29) Jesus said: If the flesh has come into being
because of the spirit, it is a marvel; but if the
spirit (has come into being) because of the body,
it is a marvel of marvels. But as for me, I marvel
at this, how this great wealth has settled in this
poverty.


(49) Jesus said: Blessed are the solitary and the
elect, for you shall find the kingdom; for you
came forth thence, and shall go there again.


(50) Jesus said: If they say to you: Whence have
you come?, tell them: We have come from the light,
the place where the light came into being through
itself alone. It [stood], and it re- vealed itself
in their image. If they say to you: Who are you?,
say: We are his sons, and we are the elect of the
living Father. If they ask you: What is the sign
of your Father in you?, tell them: It is a
movement and a rest.


(51) His disciples said to him: On what day will
the rest of the dead come into being? And on what
day will the new world come? He said to them: That
which ye await has come, but ye know it not.


(70) Jesus said: When you bring forth that in
yourselves, that which you have will save you. If
you do not have that in yourselves, that which you
do not have in you will kill you.


(77) Jesus said: I am the light that is over them
all. I am the All; the All has come forth from me,
and the All has attained unto me. Cleave a (piece
of) wood: I am there. Raise up the stone, an ye
shall find me there.


(83)Jesus said: The images are revealed to the
man, and the light which is in them is hidden in
the image of the light of the Father. He shall be
revealed, and his image is hidden by his light.


(91) They said to him: Tell us who thou art, that
we may believe in thee. He said to them: You test
the face of the heaven and the earth, and him who
is before you you do not know, and you know not to
test this moment.


(106) Jesus said: When you make the two one, you
shall become sons of man, and when you say:
Mountain, be moved, it shall be moved.


(111) Jesus said: The heavens shall be rolled up
and the earth before your face, and he who lives
in the living One shall neither see death nor
(fear); because Jesus says: He who shall find
himself, of him the world is not worthy.